“Take it away” – Thank you for the past decade, Mr. Sand! – Super Exclusive Interview

In mid-January 2020, we had the chance to make a Super Exclusive Interview with the contest director of Eurovision Song Contest, Mr Jon Ola Sand in the same way as the radio version, without any changes, in its full length.

The interview has been made on 13th January 2020 @ Headquarter of EBU, Geneva, Switzerland by Peter Gyorgy Farago, OurVision Production

OVP (OurVision Production): Geneva, Switzerland. This location means the same for all the fans: the brain of their favourite annual music competition, the member of Eurovision Family. This time we are here at the headquarter of the European Broadcasting Union and we have the chance to make an exclusive interview with the EBU Head of Live Events and the reigning executive supervisor of Eurovision Family programmes, Jon Ola Sand. Welcome – and we would like to say much thanks for organize this interview.

Jon Ola Sand: Thank you.

OVP: To be the leader of such amazing programmes and television shows could be a very hard thing. What made you to apply for this position many years ago?

Jon Ola Sand: Well, I have had a relationship with the Eurovision Song Contest so to say since the ’98, 1998, when I first joined the Contest in Birmingham as Head of Delegation for the Norwegian act that performed that year. And since that, I had several different positions within the national selection shows in Norway both as a Head of Delegation to Eurovision Song Contest, but I also commissioned the show. I have been working with the team as an Editor-in-Chief and when Alexander Rybak won the contest in Moscow in 2009, I was there and I knew that this was going to hit NRK quite hard because it’s a very complex challenge and the event in Moscow was huge and it was a great show. And I was appointed to be the producer in Oslo, to be the executive producer to produce Eurovision Song Contest for all the members on behalf of the EBU at that time. Right after that Svante Stockselius, my predecessor decided to leave the EBU, and I was asked if I was interested to join. And in the first place, I was not, because there are things moving to Geneva: because you have to live and work in Geneva. And at that time, I didn’t see that as a good fit for my personal life and for what I was doing. I had a very interesting job at NRK, the public service broadcaster in Oslo, but I had several meetings with the EBU and late autumn, I decided that I should give it a try. So I came down here in 3rd January 2011 to Geneva. Then I started working for the EBU and I’ve been here for a very long period already. So, a Rotterdam would be my 10th Eurovision Song Contest and of course, it is a fantastic opportunity to have that chance to be a part of such an amazing show like Eurovision Song Contest, there have been very good years here.

OVP: It sounds great. You said that this will be the 10th Eurovision Song Contest in Rotterdam, in The Netherlands. How has been the Eurovision Song Contest changed in the past decade from your point of view?

Jon Ola Sand: Well, the Eurovision Song Contest has developed ever since it was launched in 1956, and the main big changes came when more countries had the possibilities to actually come to onboard Eurovision Song Contest. So in the early 2000s, when a lot of the former Eastern Block countries wanted to join Eurovision Song Contest, it had to expand. So, in 2004, we started with the first semi-final, and already at that time, we could see a real shift in the energy of Eurovision Song Contest, because the countries that came onboard they came with much more energy. They were much better prepared, they had much better acts at that time. So, Eurovision Song Contest before 2004 was more getting into, in my opinion, to more sort of slumbering moods… well, yes, it… it was a yearly event, but it hardly had that energy and the push that came later on, when new countries came on board. Then in 2008 with two semi-finals, and after we hosted Eurovision Song Contest in 2010 and I started here, my main focus and the focus of the team here, and at EBU is to strengthen the public service values in Eurovision Song Contest, give it a meaning why do we do it: why do we have this fantastic event every year and how can we showcase what public service can do if they flex their muscles together. So that’s been my main focus.

OVP: What has been the biggest challenge in your job during the last 9-10 years?

Jon Ola Sand: I cannot point out any specific challenge. I mean it’s always a challenge because it is a very very complex operation. It is much more than our members usually do. They know how to produce TV, because they do it, but there is so much more with Eurovision Song Contest. You have all the events side around it, staging a press centre with 1500 journalists. You have to have transport, very complex transport logistics in place and all of this is something that they usually don’t do, so this always a challenge to move Eurovision Song Contest around Europe and they cannot point out any specific challenge.

OVP: During the years EBU has changed the structure of Eurovision Song Contest shows and the voting procedure and the announcement ways that make all the shows more and more interesting and exciting. Did you find the more sustainable system for the show by the latest modification in 2019?

Jon Ola Sand: Yeah, I mean, we always look at how we can build excitement and I think that what we did in 2016, when we changed the presentation on the voting. We managed to create a much more exciting ending of the show: at the end of the show, Eurovision Song Contest would became much more exciting. Before that, you had the Tour of the Spokespersons and quite early in that round, you could predict who would win. You could see a very sort of clear pattern by changing the presentation. It became much more exciting and then we saw that by tweaking that a little bit like we did last year, we could even make it clearer and more exciting. So, that was I think a good step to do. There are no other big plans to change the parts of the Eurovision Song Contest, but we always look at how we can make it better and make it fit better for the schedules. Because every in the TV environment changes, the media environment changes, people’s habits changes. So, I think it’s good that we also are open to change.

OVP: As we noticed earlier, we asked and request more fans and other’s questions. So these will be the first: “Are you planning to use any show elements for saying goodbye? Maybe a few minutes interval song about your 10 years in the bubble-like Love Love Peace Peace.“
This is from Hungary, the leader of the Hungarian fan association.

Jon Ola Sand: Then I have to disappoint you. There are no such plans ready. I will try not to do much around my departure. I think I’m here to do a professional job. And hence, I’m not an artist. I’m not very good at performing, so I would prefer not to. And I have no plans at least for myself.

OVP: But there are harder questions: although ESC has always stressed that it does not want to give way to daily politics, but it has inadvertently appeared on the program – occasionally through the reaction of the performers or the audience. There are countries where Eurovision Song Contest was even the topic of debate in the national parliament. How do you see how such a program can pull itself out of politics. Does it have to eliminate itself at all?

Jon Ola Sand: I mean, such a big focus program, Eurovision Song Contest could always gonna be an attention point for politics and we see that every year actually. It could be from specific groups or specific NGOs that want to use it. It could be from politicians that would like to have a say in it. We have been very clear all the time that we cannot allow any political message in the shows because that’s what we control and not on the premises of Eurovision Song Contest. And we’ve managed to steer that quite well I must say over the years. We had an incident last year with the Icelandic act. We have had such incidents before in Stockholm, we had an incident, but I think we managed to steer that very well. If people around would like to use Eurovision Song Contest for political reasons there’s very little we can do. If a politician in a country would like to make a political statement about the Eurovision Song Contest, it’s not in my power to deny that or stop that. But within the premises of Eurovision Song Contest and within the programmes we have managed very well to keep it free of politics.

OVP: It’s interesting. Was there a year when Eurovision was on the verge of destruction/cancellation due to some reasons?

Jon Ola Sand: No, not really. There’ve been years that have been tougher in the sense that it’s, again, it’s a very complex production, but we have never ever had a sort of a cancellation threat or anything close to that. I’ve been convinced every year that we can make Eurovision Song Contest happen in any territory and I still firmly believe that is possible. But I mean we have a very high security level, we follow the local situation. We scrutinize that very thoroughly, so we have to make sure that we can do it safely, that we can do it in the best possible way. I mean, invite a lot of people there. So we always followed that very closely. But no in my time, there’s not been any such things.

OVP: It’s great. And another question from our partner program, this was asked by Roksana Majewska for Destination Eurovision, Poland. “What do you think about the orchestra on Eurovision Song Contest? Is there a chance to getting back to the contest? If yes, in which way and how do you imagine it?”

Jon Ola Sand: I was a part of that discussion, I remember when the orchestra disappeared from Eurovision Song Contest, because I was the Head of Delegation in Birmingham, the last year they had an orchestra in ’98. The reason why there is no longer an orchestra is that actually that decision allowed Eurovision Song Contest to grow. It is – as I’ve said many times in this interview –  it’s a very complex and complicated project. Adding an orchestra into that to more than 40 acts would be an impossible challenge. It wouldn’t be possible to travel around, many of our broadcasters don’t have an orchestra. So we have to bring an orchestra, the rehearsal time would have been expanded a lot, it will be extremely expensive. So there is no discussion about bringing the orchestra back at the time being. Although I could see that it will be wonderful to have a full orchestra there, but it’s absolutely impossible. Then we have to scale it down and to make a different Eurovision Song Contest.

OVP: Yes. It’s well-known ESC is the showcase of technical innovations of television. Which innovations are you the proudest?

Jon Ola Sand: I’m the proudest every year when I see the high-end production that our members deliver. There is no sort of single moment I can say that I’m specifically proud and more proud than other times. It’s just a fantastic production every year using higher, the latest technology in lighting, LED and special cameras, all of it. It’s now, we have had the augmented reality brought into the show, we will see more on that in the next edition. So there are always developments and that is what I’m proud of.

OVP: For you, what was the most remarkable show element in the past 10 years?

Jon Ola Sand: Again, I have no specific remarkable element. I think, there is a lot of remarkable moments during the last ten years. And again, I’m very proud of some of the brave decision that the broadcasters take because they can put on really complicated acts that might not seem very complicated. But on top of the competition where you have up to 40 or more countries, broadcasters participating you put on extremely complicated opening, interval acts, VT’s, postcards, all of it. And it’s a lot to be proud of when you see that.

OVP: The ESC has expanded over the decades: it followed by Eurovision Young Musicians, Eurovision Young Dancers, Junior Eurovision Song Contest and finally in the past years, Eurovision Choir. Do you have any idea you would like to realize – other things?

Jon Ola Sand: Well, it’s not really up to me to realize that. All this initiative comes from the members to EBU. And EBU, it’s not sort of a production unit where you start. We facilitate: when there is a wish among the broadcasters or a need among the broadcasters to put on any specific program or project, we can help them facilitate that and to bring more members in. But there is no discussion around my table to invent new formats and all the formats you mentioned here has been created by the members and the EBU has been a facilitator for it.

OVP: This year’s Eurovision Young Dancers has been cancelled for not the first time. What depends on the number of participating broadcasters? Why does not EBU responsible for delegated the broadcasters to take part in competitions?

Jon Ola Sand: We encourage broadcasters to take part and we work with our member groups. We have a music and dance bureau with all the music and dance experts among our members who meet several times a year – and we discuss a lot with them. If the interest is not there to participate because they see different priorities on their schedules then there is nothing we can do. We cannot force people, the broadcasters to join these events. You see that more and more broadcasters are under financial pressure and they also have their own cultural channels with smaller budgets. So spending… a project like Eurovision Young Dancers is quite an expensive project and to spend money from the broadcasters on that project can be difficult when you have to maintain cultural channels with less budgets than primetime channels.

OVP: Let’s move a little bit farther – both sides and both directions. What are the obstacles to launch Eurovision Asia? How is that project going? When will be the first contests could be held?

Jon Ola Sand: To answer the latter: we don’t know. It’s been a very complicated ride and one of the reasons for that is that the TV market in Asia is very different from Europe. It’s much more diverse. You don’t have a central organization like the EBU who have a very close relationship with all their members. You have ABU, the Asian Broadcasting Union, but it works in a different way with its members. So, it is a very very different setup and Eurovision Song Contest came out… came about very many years ago in a totally different time and it has developed over time. To launch that initiative now into very diverse markets like the Asian market is complicated. We have a very good partner in SBS Australia has been working a lot together with EBU to get it up, but in the end, it is something that the broadcasters… they have to commit to participate. They have to see the value for their schedule. And so far we haven’t managed to pull together enough broadcasters actually in Asia. We’re not giving up and we have good progression, but things take time. Basically.

OVP: Yes. And let me see the other side, in another direction to America. With Netflix planning to host an ESC-style American contest. Do you foresee an American wildcard entry – like Australia had – into the contest? Or even a Cross-Atlantic contest happening?

Jon Ola Sand: First of all, it’s not right that Netflix is planning this. We have an initiative with a group of producers who are talking to a lot of players in the American market to get a similar contest up between the states in the US. But that’s nothing to do with Netflix. I mean they talk to Netflix, they talk to other big players. So, both are digital or there are more terrestrial usual broadcasters there. So let’s see: the USA is also a very difficult market. So this is also something that we try and we will see if it works. There is no initiative plan to invite a US broadcaster to join Eurovision Song Contest, that has not been in a discussion. If this initiative succeeds, which we really hope, then we might start that discussion. But for the time being there is no discussion about it. And the reason for that is it’s not a well-known project in the US. So, if we should bring a country on-board Eurovision Song Contest, they have to have a domestic audience. They have to have enthusiasm, they have to have the structure in place that can really embrace Eurovision Song Contest like Australia. Because they have broadcasted it for more than 30 years. It was a huge fan base there. They have commentators in place for many years, so it was a natural fit. That’s not the case for the US.

OVP: So you are working on this format in Sweden now – because there is some news about this kind of preparations.

Jon Ola Sand: This is not a Swedish company, it’s a US company, but there are some Swedes involved in the initiative. Yes. So they are forming their own company. It’s based in Los Angeles and the work starts from, it goes out from Los Angeles.

OVP: And the final three questions. You have probably become one of the most popular competition directors in the history – the fans said this – of Eurovision Song Contest in recent years and not just with your so-called quirk. Where this most anticipated phrase “Take it away” come from?

Jon Ola Sand: Well, it’s not really easy to see, where it comes from, but I think it was a good way of handing over actually the tasks back to the hosts and back to the spokespersons. So, I thought it was a good face and I see that it sticks. So, that’s good.

OVP: We really love it, yes. And what’s next? This is the year – as we started the introduction –  this will be the last Eurovision Song Contest in your career. In what area where you continue to work?

Jon Ola Sand: I will continue to work for public service broadcasting. So, I will work for NRK, the Norwegian public service broadcasting. They are moving their whole headquarters from Oslo. Not from Oslo: they are moving their headquarters, so they will build a brand new media building somewhere in Oslo and I will be take the lead in that process to make sure that they get facilities right for the next 40 years. So, it’s a very very exciting and big project moving 3000 people to brand new offices. And that’s something different and I think it’s time to move on to do something different. I could very well have stayed here for more years, but I think that was a challenge. That only happens once and I want to be a part of it.

OVP: Yes. Everyone wants to know more about your successor. Can we know something about him or her? And what advice would you give for your successor?

Jon Ola Sand: I cannot say anything about my successor, but I think it’s important that someone who takes on this position understands that this is a part of a broader setup: there’s a lot of stakeholders involved. This is not a one-man show or a one-woman show at all, and people give me too much credit and too much power for the work I do. But because we work very closely with all the members, we work closely with all the delegations. There’s a great team here at EBU with a lot of knowledge. We have external partners both in Germany, in Denmark and Switzerland. It’s teamwork. And for that, my successor will know this and understand it. Of course, because we have very carefully selected someone to take on this position to make sure that person has a lot of knowledge about both the Song Contest, but also how you lead a big team, how you work in different cultures, how you work with different type of broadcaster with a different level of knowledge, and all of that. So, it’s what we will do. We will go very professional when it comes to the selection process.

OVP: Much thanks for your time and for the chance to make this interview.

Jon Ola Sand: Thank you. Thank you.

Hungarian translation & video transcripts: Mónika Menyhért
Photos: Zoltán Mihály Lőwinger / OurVision Production